Re: [ossig] (Fwd) STI News: Firm discovers good IT help hard to find

["TM Tan (aka Meng)" <tmtan@tm.net.my>]

Hi Mel

> So you are saying that Windows contributes to the factor that IT grads
> lack programming skill?

not directly, rightly that should not be the case ... What I am saying is that many "IT 
Courses" teach students little more than how to use windows or windows admin or 
windows based software development tools.

They should be teaching IT principles...the scope is so huge, you cannot learn really 
learn IT in one or even two courses.

Example....Comp Sci people are software oriented, they become programmers, 
systems analysts, software designers etc

Comp Eng people are hardware oriented, they make the chips and design computer 
systems etc

Even these two don't cover so many other topics in IT...data communications, 
networking, security etc etc

So when someone is a graduate in "IT Studies" - what have they really learnt ? 
 
> > We live in a place where "programmers" are the lowest level of IT
> staff...hmm, what does that
> > tell you ? Seems like no one is proud to be called a programmer.
> 
> You are wrong. I regards all of my programmers highly, and I respect all of
> them, regardless of their skill level. 

In many Malaysian corporations a programmer isn't even considered executive staff.  
In a very large company I worked 11 years for, fresh degree holders are executive 
staff - with the title systems analyst !! who have never written a line of code in their 
lives. Qualifications required to be a programmer is a diploma, non executive staff 
usually becoming operators - ie people who keep the printers well fed with paper and 
to call the engineers when something breaks.

I have a question for you, do you ever see any of your best programmers earning 
RM10,000 per month ? not immediately, but say he is your top programmer, 15 years 
experience, will you be willing to pay him RM10,000-15,000 per month ? I know many 
dipstick General Managers who earn that much after working 10 years who can't 
even come up with a simple business plan.....answer this question and you will 
understand why being a "programmer" in Malaysia doesn't pay.

>And programming is more than a rocket
> science. Have you ever spent an entire night chasing lost memory? When you
> code, what sort of data do you hold in your head?

oh yes, I remember those days fondly....trying to get code to run just a little bit faster 
:) I would be proud to call myself a programmer but I was never very good at it :(
Never got the hang of C or C++, been a Turbo Pascal programmer all my 
programming life.

> Sadly, even experienced programmers are also lacking the basic. Most of them
> work for the sake of getting a project done. I've interviewed 10 C++
> programmers, but none of them can get even a fundamental question[2] right.

yep, no wonder India and China are eating us and pretty much the rest of the world 
for lunch 
 
> Secondly, some even think that they are good - none of the Java programmers
> that I've interviewed can get even a simple question [3], fresh or
> otherwise.

I know some very talented programmers, pity that in Malaysia they will never earn the 
kind of salaries they deserve as programmers.

Cheers

Meng


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