Re: [ossig] University curriculum for OSS?

[Uwe Dippel <udippel@uniten.edu.my>]

On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 13:47, Loke KS wrote:

> However, teaching oss-related stuff, or even technology-application subjects
> does not in anyway invalidate teaching concepts. In a curriculum, there will
> be core subjects where concepts are taught, and electives where a mix of
> technology and concepts can be taught. And what is concepts and application
> is a sliding scale, 

not very much, so, to me,

> sometimes not clearly differentiated,

to me, yes, clearly differentiated

> and in recent
> years the slide has been towards application-like concepts 

right; much too much so,

> My point: Unis teach concepts and technology, how you define and slice it is
> debatable, and teaching one does not invalidate the other.

Oh yes, it does. Someone who can drag&drop around in Visual C++ does not
need a basic understanding of what an editor or a compiler does. Or have
the notion, that Notepad can be used to write a program.

> On the other hand, the other question is does OSS have any computing
> concepts or valuable experiences that is useful to students. Ok, some say,
> as a social-technology subject. 

As such, OSS is not much of a topic, right

> But no core computing concepts can be
> distilled from OSS, as a movement, as a development & programming
> methodology, as distribution mechanism, as literature?

You seem to forget the most important aspect: it is our only car with
the hood open to study. All other cars simply permit to *drive* them.
Graduated drivers; no engineers. Not 1000 for the drivers license but
50.000 for a drivers degree. Dadah in the eyes of the observer.

> > That implies, that these Third World varsities *must* train the students
> > for the tools used by the First World companies. To be licensed with
> > these or other First World companies in due course.
> 
> But First World contributions to OSS dominates??

This is not a 'but', but a proof: instead of us taking our liberty to
shake off the hand-cuffs, we queue for them, because they glitter
golden. What a perspective: the colonialists keen on having an
alternative for their own and the former colonies rushing to grab a
piece of the emperor's cloth. Hats off to China, which seems to not fall
so willingly for prey (== markets).

> > It seems, the colonial powers have learned more from centuries of
> > exploitation than the exploited.
> > At least, this is the impression that I seem to get when our proud
> > students finally *think* to hold the thread to eternal wealth in their
> > hands as soon as they are able to use VB, ASP, Frontpage or Visual C++.

> Perhaps it is a little to much for students to link colonialism to VB,  when
> their first thought is how to be employable? The fault perhaps like in the
> industrial-commercial environment rather than the students, which after all
> the child of its environment...??

No, it's not the students fault in the first place. Or is it ? Whose
fault when we read about exponential increase of obese youngsters ...:
Does McD & al force them to swallow ?

I'm definitively *not* against VB, Frontpage, et familia. This is
certificate level and knowledge-workers are needed ! But this knowledge
doesn't bring us *any* closer to a 'National Computer'. It is cheating -
on the students and their sponsors. Education is fun - and mostly hard
work ! No shortcuts to understanding a semaphore or creating a really
HCI-aware webpage. No need to spend 3,4,5 years to become a
VB-programmer or design an average web-page.

Let's bring science and academics back into the universities, so that
the future generation of this country can contribute real stuff.
And here is where OSS comes in. And has a place. 

Uwe



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