Re: [ossig] University curriculum for OSS?

["Loke KS" <lks@webpres.com.my>]

> > My point: Unis teach concepts and technology, how you define and slice
it is
> > debatable, and teaching one does not invalidate the other.
>
> Oh yes, it does. Someone who can drag&drop around in Visual C++ does not
> need a basic understanding of what an editor or a compiler does. Or have
> the notion, that Notepad can be used to write a program.

But the converse can be useful, ie someone who can write a compiler, can
still use drag&drop?? I am not equating technology to MS/Drag&Drop/etc.
Technology here simply means application-based concepts, eg.  LAN
administration, or running make,  rather than say, compiler theory, or A*
search, critical section problem, formal specifications, etc, etc.

> > On the other hand, the other question is does OSS have any computing
> > concepts or valuable experiences that is useful to students. Ok, some
say,
> > as a social-technology subject.
>
> As such, OSS is not much of a topic, right
>
> > But no core computing concepts can be
> > distilled from OSS, as a movement, as a development & programming
> > methodology, as distribution mechanism, as literature?
>
> You seem to forget the most important aspect: it is our only car with
> the hood open to study. All other cars simply permit to *drive* them.
> Graduated drivers; no engineers. Not 1000 for the drivers license but
> 50.000 for a drivers degree. Dadah in the eyes of the observer.

I am not advocating graduated drivers over engineers. Teaching technology
(in general including oss technology, ie how to use ANT, whatever) is not
evil.

> > > That implies, that these Third World varsities *must* train the
students
> > > for the tools used by the First World companies. To be licensed with
> > > these or other First World companies in due course.
> >
> > But First World contributions to OSS dominates??
>
> This is not a 'but', but a proof: instead of us taking our liberty to
> shake off the hand-cuffs, we queue for them, because they glitter
> golden. What a perspective: the colonialists keen on having an
> alternative for their own and the former colonies rushing to grab a
> piece of the emperor's cloth. Hats off to China, which seems to not fall
> so willingly for prey (== markets).

I don't disagree. So how setup a catalyst for this? University is not a good
place to start??

> > > It seems, the colonial powers have learned more from centuries of
> > > exploitation than the exploited.
> > > At least, this is the impression that I seem to get when our proud
> > > students finally *think* to hold the thread to eternal wealth in their
> > > hands as soon as they are able to use VB, ASP, Frontpage or Visual
C++.
>
> > Perhaps it is a little to much for students to link colonialism to VB,
when
> > their first thought is how to be employable? The fault perhaps like in
the
> > industrial-commercial environment rather than the students, which after
all
> > the child of its environment...??
>
> No, it's not the students fault in the first place. Or is it ? Whose
> fault when we read about exponential increase of obese youngsters ...:
> Does McD & al force them to swallow ?

Parents?? :-)

> I'm definitively *not* against VB, Frontpage, et familia. This is
> certificate level and knowledge-workers are needed ! But this knowledge
> doesn't bring us *any* closer to a 'National Computer'. It is cheating -
> on the students and their sponsors. Education is fun - and mostly hard
> work ! No shortcuts to understanding a semaphore or creating a really
> HCI-aware webpage. No need to spend 3,4,5 years to become a
> VB-programmer or design an average web-page.
>
> Let's bring science and academics back into the universities, so that
> the future generation of this country can contribute real stuff.

And what this mean? Dropping drag&drop from the curriculum??? If only were
so simple??? The call of the industry is for more technology-oriented
graduates who can jump straight to the job, rather someone who can use Z to
write formal and correct program specs.

> And here is where OSS comes in. And has a place.

and what does that mean??

>
> Uwe
>
>
>
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