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RE: [ossig] Copyright Laws

Some argue that Linux has been in SEA and adopted for many years, hence the stories that a super duper administrator is required to maintain the Linux system. It is general news that Unix administrators command a higher salary compared to MS admnistrator of the same level. Thus some came to the equation 


This also automatically applied to the salary scale. I saw an ad in USA that was offering Linux Administrator, but today I cant get to any URL in US or UK for the salary survey. Go search for the salary surveys if you can.

Having come across many System Adminitrators during my time as a consultant and trainer only managed to agree that they do depend a lot on vendors and there is little ownership of the Linux box. Some reasons:
1. When things go wrong, someone needs to be blamed and executed.
2. Their role tend to be over lapping with other areas.
3. Application vendors tend to target the Ssyadmin when their apps go wrong
4. Attitude - Embarrased to learn or to say "I dont know"
5. There is a rush to get things done. Planned maintenance procedures are not created or followed. Heard of fire fighting?

Within 5 years, a proper Sysadmin would have atleast
1. joined in Linux news/mailing groups
2. contributed to some OSS documentation

The list goes on and on. Doesn't certification atleast help employers determine that the years of Linux experience came along with competency?

On Wednesday 02 June 2004 3:07 am, Tze-Meng Tan wrote:
> On May 31, 2004, at 19:35, Colin Charles wrote:
> > On Mon, 2004-05-31 at 13:06, Tze-Meng Tan wrote:
> >> Like it or not, UNIX/Linux people cost more.....
> >
> > Why do they cost more? Its an attitude like this that makes people run
> > away. Using the fact that they're lesser in number isn't useful either
> thats reality, not attitude.... MCSEs are everywhere, plenty of supply,
> like rice, therefore cheap
> UNIX and Linux people are rare. like diamons .... therefore demand
> higher salaries
> >> I have a question for you employers out there, *IF* you have the
> >> budget,  how much are you willing to pay (monthly salary) for the
> >> following:
> >>
> >> 1. Competent UNIX/Linux Sysadmin - say 5 years experience ?
> >
> > I've seen incompetent ones with 5 years experience too...
> oh yes, I've seen my share :) ... this is just for the sake of
> comparison, a bit of generalisation, 5 years should be long enuff for
> the typical sysadmin to get
> competent

	When I was an admin in the US, people respect you a little. When first came 
here, I notice certain people have low regard for admin people. ( I was never 
an admin in Malaysia anyway).  Then I notice, a large number of sys admin in 
Malaysia and Singapore has the following job function.

	1) attending conferences
	2) when something break call in the vendor
	3) when service become poor, buy new server
	4) Make coffee, and transport coffee cups around office.
	5) when network throughput is down, upgrade internet service
	6) when cannot explain why things still broken after buy new server and 
upgrade, blame everyone else.
	7) when someone complain service remain poor, complain to superior and say 
user being difficult.

	I have also notice the an anomoly in SEA in general, admin to user ratio is 
very high.  Some organization I know has something like 30 different admin 
for around 5000-6000 users. 

> >> 2. Expert UNIX/Linux Sysadmin - say 10 years experience ?
> >> 3. Competent UNIX/Linux Developer - say 5 years experience ?
> >> 4. Expert UNIX/Linux Developer - say 10 years experience ?
> >>
> >> Now, the reality ... how many *HAVE* the budget to pay these salaries
> >> ?
> >
> > The problem with Malaysia is that they're just way too many
> > half-past-six fellows around. They preach Unix/Linux, yet use Windows
> > on
> > a daily basis. This is what spoils the market - they offer cheap
> > services, yet they're damaging:
> >
> > a) they provide crap service
> > b) they drive the price down for services
> damned straight ... got outbid in a job to secure 6 Solaris servers,
> customer pays RM1+ million for the servers and some nitwit quoted
> RM1800 to do *ALL* of em.
> wonder if the machines have been owned yet ...
> > c) because of (b), "good" Unix/Linux admins/developers cost more
> > d) good training doesn't happen, so there's no next level to take over,
> > this helps (c)
> >
> > So, if we get rid of these half-past-six folk, and there are true-blue
> > OSS believers and deliverers, ready to get the next generation ready,
> > will Unix/Linux folk cost more?

> Thats a BIG IF ... problem is most customers cannot tell if someone is
> good or not...usually they go for the cheapest

 Linux/unix require a lot of learning and reading lots of documentation and 
books instead of calling in MSCE the next time trouble develop. (or click 
default for everything when prompt a window). Ask yourself how many people 
not on this mailing list willing to do that. I personally know people who ask 
me 6 years ago, why I need internet service at home. 

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