Re:[ossig] Enterprise Linux: UserLinux, Debian

[Uwe Dippel <udippel@xxxxxxxxx>]

>>same that I can do just as well on Debian. Does RedHat offer *any* 
>>advantages (except of the red hat, Collin ?) ?
>>    
>>
>				     ^^^^^^
>				thats Colin	
>
And me ashamed. Sorry !

>		
>There are many advantages, to each his own Uwe. I wasn't going to
>participate in the thread, but I see I was pinged several times... You
>have already made up your mind that Fedora offers you no advantages, and
>I'm not going to change that (in fact, I don't care less to)
>  
>
I wished you would, because I wouldn't mind going back if there were 
remarkable advantages except of an easier installer.

>> Since they broke my heart with upgrades from 7.3 to eight (more so my 
>> favourite apps !) and the same again from 8 to 9 (PPPoE, DHCP, Apache
>  
>
>Funny. Many people upgrade from 7.x -> 8 -> 9 -> Core 1 -> Core 2 w/o
>issues. They also do 7.x jumps to Core 1 (an X developer did that
>recently)
>
>  
>
'Works for me' is no solution. ISC changed the minimal DHCP-config 
between 8 and 9, so it wouldn't start. Except for those not using it, of 
course. PPPoE was moved from userland into the kernel (so goes the 
rumour) and broke the Roaring Penguin PPPoE that had been installed 
before it showed up in RedHat (I don't remember too well; there was 
something about version numbers that made RH9 update to a RP-config - 
and that wouldn't work out). I don't like the details, but since you are 
convinced that these were non-issues, I should mention them. From 7.3 to 
8 it had been the fully customised desktop that was wiped and couldn't 
be put back (remember metacity).

>>Is it true that I'd be sitting on FC3 and subsequent just by using Yum
>>    
>>
>?
>
>Yes
>
>  
>
This sounds promising ! Update without reboot (except of kernel) ...

>>No ISOs, no boot to CD and Upgrade ? Like you may from Woody (July
>>    
>>
>2002 
>  
>
>>!) 'till Sid of today ?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes
>  
>
Also this sounds good; at least from FC1 to FCn; a gradual upgrade.

>>Ooops, another advantage on Debian: main - contrib - non-free to
>>    
>>
>follow 
>  
>
>>your religion w.r.t. FSF or your own.
>>    
>>
>
>There's Core, Extras, Alternatives and Legacy. Within Core, there's
>"released", "updates-released", "updates-testing", and "development".
>It's the same with Extras & Legacy, minus the "released". Alternatives
>can do whatever they darn well pleased
>
>  
>
That was another breakage: there was no MP3 from anywhere close to 
RedHat (so no 'non-free').  Though I fully understood the motives for 
those changes, they were kind of hidden. You update, stuff breaks, and 
there's no way back. That was the moment - very personally - to fdisk 
all those machines.

>>And a last argument: RedHat has over the years removed standard Unix 
>>tradition from the command line and replaced those with proprietary, 
>>non-standard commands (redhat-configure something).
>>    
>>
>
>Its now system-config-*. The traditional methods are still there,
>incidentally. And yes, standard tradition might have been removed, but
>its back to what upstream likes in FC. It's even got /media and /srv
>now, for instance
>
>  
>
That was during the Install-Feast in APIIT, when we tried in vain to get 
a laptop running X. There's someone on this list who witnessed me 
digging deep in my toolbox; stuff like xf86config, xf86cfg and what else 
XFree86 offers - except on that install. And the built-in utility died 
with some weird messages, not even giving us a chance to do something. I 
don't remember the gory details, myself. I only know that we could do 
anything, even though we were sure we had been able to if only the tools 
hadn't been replaced.

>>Also this might account for a preference of some 
>>pseudo-rebranding-distros. Which is where we started.
>>    
>>
>
>What you all failed to mention was the amount of distros that spun-off
>from Red Hat? Ye olde Mandrake is a RH spin-off, too, incidentally
>
>http://www.distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=independence
>
>Now drop all the language-based-localisation distros from Debian, the
>numerous copycat Knoppix distros (45), and 97-45 = 52. Then add
>Fedora/Red Hat with RHEL, and maybe the original poster might've come up
>with an incorrect assumption
>  
>
Might be. But I don't bother with religious wars. The moment something 
convinces me more than my current preferences of Debian and OpenBSD I 
move. We want choices and we want what we perceive to be the 'best'. It 
seems the OP just asked a question; like what makes the commercial 
spin-offs use one distro over another. Or: is the underlying distro 
somehow related to the success of Knoppix.

I would really like to get some clues on that. Because that could be 
valuable feedback for market-driven Software Engineering. Where Debian - 
academically speaking - as you mentioned as well, ought to be loser 
number one.

Uwe


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