Re: Re:[ossig] Enterprise Linux: UserLinux, Debian

[Colin Charles <byte@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 00:31, Uwe Dippel wrote:
		
> >There are many advantages, to each his own Uwe. I wasn't going to
> >participate in the thread, but I see I was pinged several times... You
> >have already made up your mind that Fedora offers you no advantages, and
> >I'm not going to change that (in fact, I don't care less to)
> >  
> >
> I wished you would, because I wouldn't mind going back if there were 
> remarkable advantages except of an easier installer.

Actually, I guess for the benefit of all, there will be a list of this,
which will get released in the near future, so I hope you don't mind
waiting :)

> 'Works for me' is no solution. ISC changed the minimal DHCP-config 
> between 8 and 9, so it wouldn't start. Except for those not using it, of 
> course. PPPoE was moved from userland into the kernel (so goes the 
> rumour) and broke the Roaring Penguin PPPoE that had been installed 
> before it showed up in RedHat (I don't remember too well; there was 
> something about version numbers that made RH9 update to a RP-config - 
> and that wouldn't work out). I don't like the details, but since you are 
> convinced that these were non-issues, I should mention them. From 7.3 to 
> 8 it had been the fully customised desktop that was wiped and couldn't 
> be put back (remember metacity).

Hmm, the only recommedation I can make is please Bugzilla breakage.
Better still, when they ask you to beta test (currently for instance,
Fedora Core 3 test1 is out, as well as RHEL4alpha (though this might not
be public, I'm not sure))

> This sounds promising ! Update without reboot (except of kernel) ...

Yeah, update w/o reboot. If a kernel update is released (FC2 had 4 so
far) then you'd need to reboot into newer kernel

> Also this sounds good; at least from FC1 to FCn; a gradual upgrade.

That's the idea. And if you wanna stick with say FC1, the Legacy project
will support it for around 1.5 years from the time RH EOLs it

> That was another breakage: there was no MP3 from anywhere close to 
> RedHat (so no 'non-free').  Though I fully understood the motives for 
> those changes, they were kind of hidden. You update, stuff breaks, and 
> there's no way back. That was the moment - very personally - to fdisk 
> all those machines.

Livna provides this. Keep with "Extras" -
fedora.us/livna/macromedia/jpackage. Trying others like Dag, atrpms,
etc... aren't exactly "safe" since well, hey, there's hardly any QA (if
you're lucky there is!) and there's always reports of breakage on user
lists like fedora-list

Don't use Alternatives if you care, I guess is a cautionary tale

> That was during the Install-Feast in APIIT, when we tried in vain to get 
> a laptop running X. There's someone on this list who witnessed me 
> digging deep in my toolbox; stuff like xf86config, xf86cfg and what else 
> XFree86 offers - except on that install. And the built-in utility died 

Seems to be that the XFree86 project stopped with a lot of the
utilities, upstream as it was. Anyways, its Xorg now, and all should be
"Better"

Also, keep in mind that Debian has its own X configuration tool. Touch
the XFree86 config file (back in the day when PPC was newer, you had to
touch it manually), it would complain that the md5sums changed and you'd
have to issue at least 3 commands before getting their utility to work
again

> with some weird messages, not even giving us a chance to do something. I 
> don't remember the gory details, myself. I only know that we could do 
> anything, even though we were sure we had been able to if only the tools 
> hadn't been replaced.

Bugzilla, please. If people complain and gripe on mailing lists and the
developers themselves never get to know, how useful are complaints and
gripes then? Use the power of the bug reporting tool

> Might be. But I don't bother with religious wars. The moment something 
> convinces me more than my current preferences of Debian and OpenBSD I 
> move. We want choices and we want what we perceive to be the 'best'. It 
> seems the OP just asked a question; like what makes the commercial 
> spin-offs use one distro over another. Or: is the underlying distro 
> somehow related to the success of Knoppix.

Exactly. No religious wars. My question still stands as to why the
commercial spin-offs, Debian based, don't do well in the market. I'm
curious to know why, myself actually

Then, what about FreeBSD spin-off's? Recently, there's this DragonFly
BSD thing. Do we see commercial spin-off's for BSD based distros? Again,
I'm curious to know, no religious wars please

One possible suggestion to why LiveCDs use Debian is because its mighty
easy to bootstrap Debian. Packages are minimalist, and they don't depend
on a lot of other things. Take Fedora for example, recently, there's
been a major spec file clean-up with packages, as too many had them
having BuildRequires some form of X; a bit of code cleanup, and it
didn't (and I have an interest in LiveCDs as well...)
-- 
Colin Charles, byte@aeon.com.my
http://www.bytebot.net/
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, 
then you win." -- Mohandas Gandhi


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