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Re: [ossig] Freedom Fighters

On 01/16/06 15:59 Ditesh Kumar said the following:
> You are implying that GPL does not allow you to create better software,
> and that other free software licenses such as the BSD do a better job at

actually i didnt, so dont put words into my mouth. i was questioning jeremy 
allison's assertion that the goal of using open source to create better 
software was not as important as the political agenda behind free software.

but then, jeremy allison himself stated that the political goals of FS were 
superior to to the goal of creating better software in itself when he ridicules 
the open source moniker and esr's intent. as such, it would be natural to follow 
that given real world scenarios and if a choice had to be made, then 
political agendas will take precedence over better software. if a software 
engineer were to be driven by this philosophy, then he's actually made himself
less attractive to employers and customers.

> Link?

search it yourself, if you're capable. simply typing in netapp and freebsd 
into google brings this up within the first 10 results.

> Link? Previous discussions on this list leave me in doubt of the
> veracity of your statement.

doubt it all you want. you've not made a case either, and frankly your 
assertions that you're pragmatic and license neutral is also in doubt since 
you take offence each time the GPL is attacked. so much for neutrality.

in addition, it's not for me to prove the assertion that jeremy allison 
made. i put it to you to prove that NetApp had SMP and didnt give it to the 
freebsd project before freebsd had it since you're so adulated with it.

> I don't see what is the problem here. The definition of free software
> includes the modified BSD license so that should keep you happy.

you're making this into a licensing thing when the original article and my 
response was on FS and open source.

also, jeremy allison's clear distinction that netapp was based on open 
source and NOT free software was quite clear when he said, "NetApp was 
originally based on Open Source (note not "Free") software". so the real 
question here is why is jeremy allison clearly saying that freebsd is NOT 
free software when you seem to be saying that it is. clearly the 
distinction here is being made by the free software crowd and not the open 
source crowd who /include/ free software within its definition. in your blind
religion, you've lacked to see this.

i think you've been caught out by your own fallibility.

> Care to list out the different methods and goals of yours as well as
> your justifications that the FSF doesn't wish to adopt?

read jeremy allison's article again. additionally i've said it many times 
here as well, so go read the archives.

> And the free software model predates them all - as jeremy has pointed

actually releasing source code without restrictions predates them all. fs 
came into being only in 1984.

> Is that so? As far as I can see, FS has been widely used in business
> models. You are implying that FS doesn't work for easing the transition

would you care to go back and read what i said when i asserted that closed 
source is still the dominant model ? your red herrings certainly dont work 

as for the perceived "success" of FS, note that it languished in the doldrums
for 8 years before Linux. it was linux which pushed FS's profile higher and 
not fs in itself. fs in itself is still confined only to those who think 
politics and software should be mixed together. 

> but believing in a license and believing in freedom are not necessarily
> congruent as you imply.

exactly, which is why we keep having these flame wars every month or so. 
politics should stay out of software and when one confuses writing software 
with using software development to fulfil a political ideology, these 
things will happen and people get religious.

Regards,                           /\_/\   "All dogs go to heaven."
dinesh@alphaque.com                (0 0)    http://www.alphaque.com/
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