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Re: [ossig] Open source community needs a haircut and to dress forsuccess? Should I loose my Kurtas (long asian shirts), Jeans and Sandals



You still haven't answer questions I asked earlier .....

What's the different between a person in a war torn country and you ?

On 4/2/06, jason chong <jcvw75@gmail.com > wrote:
I am sure others got my point even if you didn't.
Anyway, have it your way.





On 4/2/06, Choong Hong Cheng < hongcheng.choong@gmail.com> wrote:
Then it should not call it sales ! is advocate ? We should communicate in a proper terminology to avoid confusion ! Don't tell me communism is also democracy ! Everything is do a form of expression of our self to the world, we are trying to prove something to the rest of the human being ! for example that you come to the conclusion that the world revolve around sales ?

Should use proper term for what you are doing .... not everything can me label as "sales" ! Convincing a girl to go out with you is courtship, convincing a girl to share a life with you is called marriage ! Both of them are very different thing ! People will mistaken if you mix up both of them ! as courtship is so much different from marriage !

You revolve so much the sales term .......... Don't tell me when you are marrying a girl / married to a girl, you tell/told her "hey I want to buy you, will you marry me" ? or you should said "will you share my life and marry me" ? Marry and selling is so big different meaning in words ! Or in your mind marriage is a form of sales transaction, buying and selling ? I am pretty sure your wife / future wife / girl friend will be pretty mad when she found out she is just a product in a sales transaction ( if the word sales is used wrongly in her context )

Back to the issue, as you said Apache has group of user to "serve", no to "sell" ! Again a vibrant project always has it's developers listening to the user on the requirement of the software .... not


"good salesperson is someone who listens to his customers needs"

Instead of buyer, and seller,

should we be using developer and user ? Is already confusing me with so many sales term ...... Don't you guys think so ?


"Everything we do in our lives involve some form of sales"
Have you consider the religious movement in this context ? Hmmm, life as a soldier is consider a form of sales ? I cann't pinpoint which is the buyer and seller, I can only see "killing someone or being killed by someone"

In my previous example, a kid in Iraq, "survive or perish" which is back to the primitive world we had before we advance into this information age.

On 4/1/06, jason chong < jcvw75@gmail.com> wrote:
Even if they don't care about governments, they still care if people use their software. If not, what's the purpose of writing a software that nobody uses? Even if it's free, you still need to 'sell' it to the 'users'.

An advocate still has to convince a person to agree with his point of views.

You are arguing on the technical terms of sales.

I do not limit the scope of sales in areas where there're commercial/financial benefits.

Everything we do in our lives involve some form of sales.

Trying to convince a girl why she should go out with you, why you're the better person for her, and convincing her to be your wife eventually, it's all sales. :-)

It's getting people to listen, agree and compromise so a mutual benefit can be achieved. It's a form of sales.

If one fail to see that point, then one is doomed to fail in advocacy, negotiation, etc.

OSS movement needs, and probably has sales people, whether the movement realizes it or not, whether the sales people are commercial or not, the point is, you need to sell your opinion/believes why your movement is the better option, or else there is no such thing as OSS advocacy.

We cannot run away from that fact. Disagree or agree, it does not change anything, as it involves 2 sides, buyer, and seller.

What we do know is, a good salesperson is someone who listens to his customers needs, instead of using only the  hard-selling approach.


On 4/1/06, Choong Hong Cheng < hongcheng.choong@gmail.com> wrote:
Agree with you on that but not all open source movement really care about governments all over the world. For example Apache Group ? do you think they really care ? but most of the libraries are found in various commercial offering. For them, they just want to create the libraries.

Are you are claiming religion teaching is a form a sales ? because the priest trying to advocate the religion ?

Sales, or the activity of selling, forms an integral part of commercial activity. Mastering sales is considered by many as some sort of persuading "art". On the contrary, the methodological approach of selling refers to it as a systematic process of repetitive and measurable milestones, by which a salesperson relate his offering enabling the buyer to visualize how to achieve his goal in an economic way.
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selling

An advocate is one who speaks on behalf of another, especially in a legal context, and particularly in reference to the system of Scots law.
Tajen from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advocate

They are distinct meaning between selling and advocating ...

Just my 2 cent opinion :) Hope I didn't hurt anyone here.