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Re: [ossig] JSP v PHP for Biz Intelligence Application

On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 23:51 +0800, Nur Hussein wrote:
> Ok, with real programming languages you have a feel of the design
> decisions that went into it. There's a grammar you can look at, a spec
> you can implement, and the language creator sat down and thought about
> what the language allows and what it doesn't, and features are added
> with the target domain of the language in mind. Take C for example, a
> lot of it might be considered "bad" (pointers, no array bounds
> checking etc. - it's basically a portable assembly) but it does what
> it's supposed to do, and does it well within the domain it's used in
> (systems programming). 

is that so with c? what happens when language extensions are added just
to be able to compile the kernel? what happens when vendors add compiler
specific extensions that slowly get accepted across the industry? is
that really design by your standards?

the only language i know of that has been designed properly from ground
up is ada, and we all know who's keeping ada company these days.

> PHP doesn't seem to have this. It started out as a set of perl scripts
> to display somebody's resume. As it grew, it added features, rewrote
> the rules, and basically you think the developers are making it up as
> they go along. It still doesn't have namespaces. Register_globals is
> still there (no it doesn't make sense to me at all, web deployment is
> where security is critical is it not?). Type checking is almost
> nonexistent. 

to understand php, you need to grok the culture and the web platform.
all of what you have mentioned ARE intentional! yes, no namespaces,
dynamic types, weak objects -> they make sense in a web environment! 

all the reasons you mentioned were why i moved from j2ee to php.

i would suggest you join php-internals and get a feel of the process
involved in the evolution of the language.

> You probably can write secure, maintainable code in PHP, just as you
> can write object-oriented code in C. However, it feels like the
> language isn't going to help you in any way in the endeavour.

the correct form would be: "You probably can write secure, maintainable
code in PHP, just as you can write secure, maintainable code in C.".

if you grok that statement, you would have just grokked the skill of
writing software.


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