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Re: [ossig] JSP v PHP for Biz Intelligence Application

just curious, is there anythign that the PHP can do, and cannot be done in JSP?

--- Kenneth Wong <kenneth.wong@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 Jul 2006, at 3:03 PM, Nur Hussein wrote:
> > language can lead to serious consequences. But not having a design  
> > at all like PHP, that does not make me comfortable.
> Where do you get the idea that PHP has no design at all? After 5  
> versions and 10 years of history, can you really believe it has no  
> design at all?
> It may have started out with a very rudimentary design, but it has  
> evolved over the years, like all software does. Are you going to  
> dismiss all software because it did not have a thick tome for  
> requirements/specifications/design before coding started on day 1?  
> Are you going to claim all software that isn't created by the classic  
> waterfall process as crap?
> This isn't to say that PHP has a _good_ design today, but it would  
> seem rather wrong to claim it does not have design.
> > I get what you're implying. But then again nobody writes web apps  
> > in C, for a good reason. For me, PHP being a language developed in  
> > "modern times" for applications that are going to be exposed to the  
> > big bad intarw3b needs to be:
> >
> > 1) Easy to write secure code
> > 2) Very high-level
> The first one is actually quite easy if you know what you are doing,  
> even in PHP. There are a few things that a good software developer  
> would look at and run screaming for the hills in terror (e.g.  
> register globals) but using that would be primarily the fault of the  
> programmer, not the language. Yeah, maybe it was a mistake to have  
> register_globals on initially but that has been fixed since. The rest  
> of the language isn't that easy to write insecure code in. Do you  
> have any specifics versus other "web-enabled" languages?
> The PHP applications that exist today are not so much a problem of  
> bad language design as a product of bad programmers. People can write  
> bad code anywhere. If I go by some of the code I've seen in  
> production, I would think Java wasn't an object oriented language :)
> > Once you throw in "enterprise-software" requirements into the mix,  
> > you also need it to be
> >
> > 3) Maintainable
> > 4) Scalable
> >
> > PHP succeeds at 2, and fails at 1. And it's *too* easy to write  
> > code that fails at 3 too. 4 I won't comment on.
> What specifically does PHP have in it that causes it to fail at  
> maintainability? Even in python, one of the cleanest languages I've  
> had the joy of working on, I've had bad developers produce  
> unmaintainable, unreadable code. Would love to hear the exact problem  
> with PHP specific syntax or language features?
> We know PHP scales to handle some fairly high traffic sites, so in my  
> mind, PHP bats 4 out of 4 so far in the criteria listed.
> > So PHP doesn't appeal to me at all. Sorry.
> Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I must admit PHP doesn't  
> appeal to me either. But I'd like to hear specifics, rather than  
> blanket statements that seem to run strongly counter to my experience  
> with the language.
> Ken
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